Curse

blackbird71 · Nov 10, 2006, 06:36 AM // 06:36

/not signed

I think the skill point system is useful in that it requires people to actually play the game in order to gain more skills. Yes, it can be done via mindless farming, but not as fast, so it encourages involvement in quests. If the limiting factor is the cost of the skills, than the solution is not to remove skill points, but to lower the cost. Then skills are more attainable and skill points regain their meaning and value.

Sli Ander · Nov 10, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

Way to fall for the trap.
If a.net still believes in the player skill, not time played, then by your arguments, clearly skill points are meant to be farmed if they are to be obtained. So, skill flexiblity comes at the cost of farming exp for skill points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

Since you played through the game normally, you didn't need to worry about skill points.

Contradiction. Skill points are 'meant' to be farmed, but if you play through, you don't have to farm them.
I thought of lots of interesting arguments, but I'll settle for this one. Grind is only introduced by player choice. If you CHOOSE to unlock every skill for all professions, then theres a chance you'll hit grind. But you don't have to do that.

I played through normally. I then set back and bought every monk skill, unlocked every monk elite in prophecies. I unlocked all ranger skills and several elites for rangers. I then went to factions and unlocked all the monk skills which weren't repeats(and I didn't have to exclude them). I capped all elites for monk. At no point did I farm for points. I just used the ones I'd gathered playing normally.

But that's just my two cents

Terra Xin · Nov 10, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Contradiction. Skill points are 'meant' to be farmed, but if you play through, you don't have to farm them.

Correct. Anet does not promote grind, but they aren't fans of an easy handout either, in order to achieve the required 'skill' that Anet has over 'hours played', you need to know how to actually play the game first. With your solution, you're not promoting 'skill', your demoting it altogether. And as you said, a level 1 character can get all of their skills if they have the money to get it... there's no skill in that. Players will become bored with the game, and GW will become less popular because it would become that easy to do things.

freekedoutfish · Nov 10, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

/notsigned

Im not understanding your logic on this.

You want to scrap skill points because you have too many to play with and you find it too easy to get more?

I wish I had 30-40 spare lying about.

Ive got dozens of elite skills I still need from factions and now Nightfall. I doubt im going to have enough for both.

Once you compelete alll the missions at master in a campaign, you have to rely on lvling up to get more. They soon run out.

Skill points exist to prevent everyone from just going out and capping every elite skill that exists. Their to limit you to only capping elite skills for just your main profession and possibly your main second profession.

Money isnt the issue. Gold is easy to come by and 1k is easy to make to get a signet of capture.

Skill points need to be increased or made easier to get, or made able to share amoung characters if anything.

Thallandor · Nov 10, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

/not signed.

Gold NOT Skill points are the limiting factor for skill purchase now.

Remove gold requirement or allow the option of using more skillpoint to offset the gold requirement eg 2 SP for a skill instead of 1k+1SP for a skill from trainer.

Dalimoor_Kalkire · Nov 10, 2006, 10:26 AM // 10:26

/not signed for many reasons -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

"Doesn't that mean a lv1 character can buy all their skills at the start?" (assuming you unlocked the skill elsewhere)
If you got the gold for it. You're looking at ~10k just for your basic skills, and nearly 100k if you want to be flexible for PvP.

First off, 100k just to be flexable with one character in PvP? Hardly...You can have a lot of fun and experiement well under that amount until you bring in more money to purchase more skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

And what about the "level-up" every 12k exp? It's just sign of a virtual level obtained. Obviously your "real" level isn't show cause of a.net philosophy on player skill not play time. That "level-up" glow can remain, but it's just bells and whisles since a.net does not recognize lv21 and +.

Stop making it sound like a waste of time..honestly...It isn't just "bells and whistle" They don't have a level 21+ for a reason. Your EXP bar isn't just for show, it's for skill points. Bringing in skill points in PvE is a major aspect of it. Removing skill points from PvE is just asking for trouble. It keeps a player working towards something. If I could just take 200k out of my bank and buyout every secondary for my character then EXP would serve no purpose at all after level 20.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

So what does this all mean? For a.net, make the skill trainer gold sink better. For us, remove the barrier keeping us from spending all our gold on skills.

Again, without skill points people would just buyout every skill in a matter of minutes if they had that kind of cash. Hell, I'd do it right now. Skill points are here for a reason, and I doubt we'll see them go, nor should they.

I have never had an issue with money or skill points holding what I wanted to get to get skill-wise. I suggest you look into why it holds you back so badly that you want to alter it before demanding that this small snar in unlimited progress gets removed.

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 10, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Ive played through the games with all mt chars and to be honest ive never had a problem with getting skill points even when i aquire all the primary and secondary profession skills for each of my chars. The bonus Xp for elite capping was a great little add in and stopped me ever having to skill point farm. Money is the biggest problem the 1k a skill adds up massivly and im sure ive spend 100s of platinium on skills.

Effendi Westland · Nov 10, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

/not signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

Skills points hold you back from nothing now, especially with the massive exp quests and 1-3 skills point for mission completion levels. Before you know it, you'll have 30,40,50 unspent skills points.

If you have so many unspent skillpoints, why need them removed?

I like it how more experienced characters are more flexible in their skill choices, and how newly created toons aren't.

Badger Muffin · Nov 10, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

/notsigned

for most of the reasons all rdy said

Kayla Slays · Nov 10, 2006, 03:13 PM // 15:13

/not signed

I admit that I was surprised when I ran out of skill points the other day! But now I have a reason to play the game a little and not just chase map and elite caps

Back to reality!

legion_rat · Nov 10, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

But then they wouldn't learn anything / as much. Prophecies players can earn their regular skills from quests, so they don't need to be spending money on regular skills, and can therefore save money and Skill Points to purchase Signets of Capture to obtain Elite Skills. In this way, they will not have to "farm" for their Skill Points until after they reach level 20 and have completed the storyline missions (not to mention all the various quests that they will probably be doing anyway, which are not farming, but still contribute to the Skill Point pool), as you seem to think. My first few characters through the game had no problems with obtaining the Skill Points and gold for Signets of Capture, as I played through the game normally (the way ArenaNet most probably intended us to), and didn't have to buy a single skill until well into the Southern Shiverpeaks (I was too lazy to do the quest for it).

Oh, and please don't lay "traps". This forum is for suggestions, not luring fellow members into what could turn into a flame war.

Well said Faer, though you cant get all skills in prophicies, you can get a good number of them. (notice the times font in honor of you)

~the Rat with points~

sykoone · Nov 11, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

If you play through the game, skill points shouldn't be an issue. And for those saying the 1k price per skill is a problem...well, if you can't make 1k in between earning skill points, then you're doing something wrong.

/notsigned

gabazieute · Nov 11, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

/not signed
I think the 1k/skill thing is more a barrier than the skill points.
As we don't have anymore quests that give you skill(s) as a reward, I think A.net should make skill a bit cheaper (500g/ea).
Especially as Nightfall armor are expensive and farming got reduced since 25/10

birdfoot · Nov 11, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

/notsigned

I don' think this really needs changing at all.

Cow Tale · Nov 11, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

why are u all acting like 1k is a lot of gold? lol

=HT=Ingram · Nov 11, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

I look at it this way. On my 2 primary characters I have enough points to unlock an entire characters when a new chapter comes out... As long as I have enough gold on me to do it... New build have access to my unlocked skills on their heroes... So no problem... By the time another chapter comes along I have enough for it again...

If you want rid of them the solution is simple. delete your character... But if you do that, well. thats up to you. I like my 2 main characters being veterans... Heck Ingram of Haz has been around since the early beta days in its current form too... maybe an armor change here or there, but basically its the same build I have used all along...

I have the numerous other characters of course, but I always do each chapter 1st with my original ranger beast master, grab a mess of unlocks and have at least 1 character in every map point for assisting others. Then I go back and play with my others much more slowly.

I look at the Skill points as a reserve for future skill releases with chapters, and a quick way to unlock a series of Core skills on new professions as 2ndaries for making new PvP builds with them.

the 1k per skill is not unreasonable for OLD characters because they have their cores and previous unlocks to make use of already. New bubilds start at 100 gold and work their way up to 1k per... This is what give the new user a chance. And of course there is a HUGE collection of skills in Prophecies that are quest unlockable, if people choose to get it...

One thing I would like to see is a way to unlock more core skills for new characters at creation, IF they are already unlocked. Especially for new character primary professions. Or maybe a way to gain access to your unlocked skills on a new character for like 30k or something like that... Oh or maybe better do it as a large quest. Or mission. Like Mission to recover forgotten skills. Bla bla bla...

Its just a thought. Its not a great thought, but its A thought...

Therlun · Nov 11, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

I dont understand why this suggestion gets so bad reactions.

If for all of you skillpoints are no problem at all and you always have enough of them, why have them in the game then?
Why are you so desperate to keep a feature that has no advantage at all, while it is a disadvantage to at least some (even if it is only a fraction of the players)?

Skillpoints add nothing to the game.

Dalimoor_Kalkire · Nov 11, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therlun

I dont understand why this suggestion gets so bad reactions.

If for all of you skillpoints are no problem at all and you always have enough of them, why have them in the game then?
Why are you so desperate to keep a feature that has no advantage at all, while it is a disadvantage to at least some (even if it is only a fraction of the players)?

Skillpoints add nothing to the game.

Skill points add something to the game. Skill points add something essential to PvE. You bring up the idea that we have so many skill points for skills, why have them at all, right? Let find an example...Hmmm...

My elementalist: Now, he has 43 skill points that are unused. So, you're saying that because I have so many, and can freely buy anything I want, we should scrap them altogether? Wrong... 43 isn't an unlimited amount, it holds me back, keeps me fighting for EXP. Why you say? Because there are far more then 43 skills I'm missing from my primary and various secondaries that I want.
Now, if I look in my bank box, I see a little over 700k. Now, without skill points I could take that out and buyout every primary, elite using capture signets, and every skill in the secondaries for this character as well without the hendering skill points. Where is the challenge of getting points to actually EARN the skills for yourself. It seems so many people want everything handed to them on a silver platter.

The skill points are there to prevent players from simply buying out every skill straight of the training areas. Would you rather see a day-old assassin come out of Shing Jea, go to Kaineng Center, buyout everything from his other farming characters, and have all the Faction skills in a matter of minutes? That isn't what this game is about, nor should be about.

When I went out and spend 60k in Capture Signets to work the "Skill Hunter" title on my monk, I ran out of points. "Well, time to build of EXP again to further my title," I said. <-- That is why they are around...To keep us striving for a better character, not to buyout everything in minutes from our farmers, or that gold we got off Ebay. So please, take off the tunnel vision and take another look before you deem something worthless.

mqstout · Nov 11, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalimoor_Kalkire

Now, if I look in my bank box, I see a little over 700k.

You have no room in this discussion. You are not even remotely close to a normal player.

bigwig · Nov 11, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Skill points force you to work with the skills you have. Its a teaching mechanism, it sort of forces people to you know, read the skill descriptions, play with a variety of skills, learn to play the game?